Liberatory Business with Simone Seol

40. How to practice allyship when we're all in danger - with Rashida Bonds

• Simone Grace Seol

Share episode

So many of us are actually scared right now — for ourselves, our loved ones and neighbors. So many are asking: “What can I do?” 

In this episode, Rashida Bonds and I offer the answer. We’re talking about simple acts of care as the most powerful weapon of resistance. 

Listen to hear more about:

  • Reasons to feel hopeful in this moment in history
  • How the people in power have always used the same playbook to divide us (and why knowing this changes everything)
  • Why caring for each other is actually the most threatening thing you can do right now – and what this means in practice
  • What to do when you feel isolated and don't know your neighbors or what they need

Resources mentioned in this episode:



Hey, you're listening to Liberatory Business and I'm your host, Simone Seol.

So a lot of us are scared right now. And I don't mean abstractly worried about the state of things. I mean actually scared — for ourselves, for our neighbors, for people we don't even know yet but who are in danger.

And when you're scared, you start thinking small. You start thinking about how to keep yourself safe, how to keep your head down, how to not be next. That's what fear does. It shrinks you.

But here's what I've learned from my friend Rashida Bonds, who you're about to hear from — the thing that makes us powerful is the exact thing they're trying to scare us away from. And that's each other.

This conversation with Rashida started because we were talking about these new executive orders, about what's happening with ICE, about the military in US cities, about all this stuff that feels like it's closing in. And somewhere in that conversation, we got to this question: what the hell is allyship supposed to mean when it's becoming clear that none of us are safe? When it's not about helping "those people over there" anymore because we're all in this?

What you're about to hear is not your typical conversation about being a good ally. Rashida's gonna tell you some history that'll make you see the present differently. We're gonna talk about why caring for each other is actually the most threatening thing you can do right now. And by the end, you're gonna have actual things you can do — not someday, not when you figure it all out, but today, in the next ten minutes.

If you're wondering what you're supposed to do with all the fear and helplessness you might be feeling, stay with us. Because Rashida and I figured some shit out, and I think it might help.

Alright, here we go.

—

Simone: Okay. Executive orders, you were saying?

Rashida: Yeah. So there are new executive orders that are either coming or have come out that have a new categorization for terrorists, and basically terrorists are anyone who doesn't like the way the government is going right now.

Simone: Anti-American and quote unquote anti-Christianity. Has unpatriotic opinions however they wanna define that.

Rashida: However they want to define it basically. And if you're speaking for the equality of all —

Simone: They called it like extremism about gender, extremism about race. Extremism is when you believe people should be treated equally.

Rashida: Right? Exactly. Those are the new executive orders that have come down about the new terrorist. And it's definitely a fear tactic to get people to be quiet and to —

Simone: Oh, on top of that, he who shall not be named telling the military to use US cities as a military training ground.

Rashida: As training grounds. The thing is, I tend to find this — not the silver lining, but the thing that makes me go, okay, okay. And it is that so many military people have been like, there were so many of them who just sat there. Stone face. No one clapped. And he even said, you can clap if you want to. No one wanted to. Right. They just sat there.

Simone: Like their eyes were giving like, "what the fuck is this?"

Rashida: Yes. Yeah. They were, yes, they were. This, that's that basic training. When they screaming in your face, you have to just sit there? Like it came in handy because they were hearing a whole bunch of BS being spewed in their face and they had to just sit there. And these are like super highly decorated military people who have important jobs that they had to leave to come there to hear that speech. Yeah. Who felt like it was so many of them felt like it was a waste of time. I heard a lot of people say that they know people who were in that crowd who felt like it was a waste of time, who felt like it was an embarrassment.

I'm like, okay, they're the ones who actually got the guns and they're the ones who are saying, we took an oath to the Constitution, not to a person and not to an office. And none of this stuff he is saying is constitutional.

You know, executive orders are not laws. So people have already had the FBI come to their door, but the FBI can't do anything. What are you gonna do? You don't have to open the door. I'm telling people, you don't have to open the door when ICE comes to your door. That isn't against the law. I get to do that. You don't have to show them ID. You don't have to speak.

Simone: I feel like so far the illusion of the United States has been for so many people could pretend like, oh, it's happening to those people, but it's not gonna happen to me. 'Cause I have a green card, I'm a US citizen. I am educated, I am white, I live in the suburbs. You could pretend that you are safe, but I think we're truly entering a place where no one could pretend that they're safe. Yeah. No one could pretend that it's happening to other people.

How do we talk about allyship right now when it's clearer than ever before that allyship is stepping up for someone else who's being oppressed. But it's actually not other people. It's not someone else, like, you are in this too.

We are all connected

Rashida: It is becoming more and more clear to people that we are all connected.

Simone: That's it.

Rashida: A lot of our programming, our societal programming, likes to isolate us and silo us and make us feel individualized and that we're so separate from everyone else. But I think what's happening right now is that we're getting like a big old wake-up call that what happens to one affects us all.

Simone: In a very literal way. Like if they are snatching my neighbor's kid today, they're gonna snatch my kid tomorrow.

Rashida: 100%.

Simone: You could think that you're the most insulated. You could be like, I am an upper middle class white lady in the suburbs, and what's gonna happen when your reproductive rights are taken away and you need medical care and you can't get it?

Rashida: All of this stuff is meant to make us scared. It's meant to make us paralyzed in fear. If I move, if I say something, if I do something, then something's gonna happen to me. So if I'm just quiet and sort of just hide under the radar, at least I'm safe or I can try to keep my family safe.

Simone: That's the tactic, that's what they're relying on.

Rashida: Exactly.

Simone: They're relying on us policing ourselves and each other to not get out of line for fear that something bad's gonna happen when they're not actually as powerful as they're sort of puffing up their chest to be seen as.

A lot of stuff is failing

Rashida: They're not. And what I'm hearing from a lot of lawyers and other people who are connected to lawyers, especially in Washington, is that a lot of stuff is failing. We're getting so much propaganda over here that we're not hearing all of it, but a lot of stuff isn't going through. They're just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

Simone: And they're throwing more stuff at the wall faster to hide, to distract from the fact that so much shit actually isn't working. Yeah. The approval ratings for this administration are lower than ever. Some of the historic lows.

Rashida: Historically. Yeah.

Simone: They are just doing their very best to distract from it. I feel like the whole Charlie Kirk pyrotechnics memorial thing was like a brilliantly effective strategy to distract from the Epstein files amongst so many other things. And it's like, hey, look over there, an explosion. Hey, look over there, an explosion. And it's like the more we get wrapped up in that and let it influence our actions, the more we are like letting them win.

Rashida: Yes. And so the thing is, we have to get out of this thinking that we are by ourselves. We're not.

Simone: We're not, we're not cornered. We're actually the majority.

Rashida: A hundred percent. And the thing is, by keeping us afraid, by keeping us siloed, by keeping us paralyzed, then we don't move and we don't realize there's more of us than there are of them.

How racism became a tool of division

What's really incredible to me is that when racism became a tool in the United States was when there were both Indigenous servants and slaves, right? And they were all poor. And when whiteness became a tool is when they were in a situation very similar to now where the poor realized that there's more of us than there are of them, and we can work together to take them out of power so that we can get what we need. And of course, you know, the people in power found out about the plan and then gave white Indigenous servants a leg up and said, hey, if you tell on your Black friends, if you tell on your Indigenous friends, then we will give you a horse. We will give you a gun, we'll give you money. And that's the DNA of the police force.

They were paid to turn on their friends, then they evolved into what we know now as the police force here in the United States. But it started with dividing us. Saying you're better than them because you have white skin. And because they felt crappy, just like we felt crappy, they said, okay. And then they were able, the rich were able to stay in power because they divided the larger group. 

And so right now what's being used is religion, and tons of fear about super small communities —

Simone: That never said anything to nobody, like trans people, like —

Rashida: Right, who just try to live. Right. Let's be afraid of trans people who make up less than 1% of the population. Let's be fearful of people who are brown because they are in gangs and they sell drugs and they're violent.

Simone: So the more afraid we are, the more disempowered we allow ourselves to feel. The more we're playing into their handbook. The more we're allowing them to consolidate and abuse power. Yeah. And so the best way to resist is to not give more oxygen to that. To not allow them to force us to live in fear and division amongst ourselves.

Allyship is linking arms with your neighbors

I mean, tell me if this doesn't sound right, but I feel like closing the loop, it's like that's where constructive action towards allyship can come in where you are linking arms with your neighbors, your siblings, and saying, "Hey, we're working together. Like we're not afraid. We're taking care of each other."

Rashida: Absolutely. We're gonna take care of each other because it is obvious that you aren't, you are abusing the power that we have given you, so we're gonna go ahead and take care of each other. And by taking care of each other, you are losing your power because we are the power.

Simone: That's right. So I love this. Allyship is giving our energy and attention and time to taking care of each other so that we are depriving the forces that feed off of our fear.

Allyship is the most natural way for us to be

Rashida: And do you know, it is the most natural way for us to be. So many people feel like allyship is extra work, it's extra energy. It's something that I have to put on my calendar or whatever, right? I'm just already so tired and this is extra work. But being an ally, taking up and checking on your fellow human is actually the most natural way. Like this is the way we come out.

Simone: We were biologically wired to do it.

Rashida: Yes. And then we're programmed out of it with fear and scarcity and religion and all kinds of other stuff programs it out of us and we become more and more individualized. But I've worked around small kids my whole life. My, I have a big family. There's a lot of toddlers around always. And the empathy that a toddler has for everybody, if their friend falls down, if a grown up goes, oh, and they fake cry. They're like, oh, you okay? Like they'll take their hands and try to help 'em or give 'em a hug. You know, that is who we are. It actually takes the least amount of energy to do that. Unfortunately, because of the programming that we've received our whole life, going back to that may feel scary and uncomfortable and weird, but it is actually a returning to yourself when you are concerned about your fellow human. 

The actor and activist Amanda Seales says, you are my business and I am your business. We are each other's business. What happens to you matters to me.

Simone: I feel like that's the most basic way you can boil down allyship. It's like your business is my business. My business is your business. So how are we gonna show up for each other?

Practical ways to care for each other

So for people who are like nodding along, okay, okay, I'm with you, Rashida, you have just opened the Liberated Life community and you are training people to be part of the resistance by being really good at this thing of caring for one another. So what does that look like practically?

Rashida: Yes, there's almost endless things that can be done, but what you should really do first, instead of looking at what people are doing on TV or what someone else is doing on social media, you're very much paying attention to what other people are doing — I think it's really important to think about the things that come easily to you, the things that you're really good at doing, and play off of that. 

I was in a coaching call last week, and someone was talking about how there are people in her neighborhood right now who are afraid to go to the grocery store because they don't wanna get taken by ICE. And I said, go to the grocery store for them. She was like, I can, I'm white. I can go wherever I want. I said, oh, good. Go to the grocery store because they're hungry, right? So knock on their door, ask them if you can go to the grocery store for them, you'll leave their groceries on the porch.

Simone: Amazing.

Rashida: She was like, oh. So that takes about 30 minutes outta her day, you know, if she's doing a big haul for them, and now these people have food. Right. So that is just a thing that you can do.

If your neighbor is afraid to leave their house and they're hungry and you're really good at cooking and you have whatever in your kitchen, and you were gonna make it anyway — I mean, when people die and when people have babies, there are a ton of casseroles usually at a door, right? Make some food, put it on their porch. Make some cookies, bake some bread. Make whatever and give it to your neighbor who's afraid to leave their house, you know, put gas in their car, whatever.

Resist by caring

Simone: It's just so beautiful. 'Cause when we just look at the news, like you said, it's precisely designed to make us feel afraid and disempowered because I think, I don't remember who said this, but how authoritarianism, fascism works is that, how Empire works is that they trick you into thinking that they are inevitable.

Rashida: Yeah.

Simone: There it is happening. There's nothing you can do to fight it. It's bigger than you and you are helpless. Like the illusion of inevitability is what gives them power. Yeah. And anytime you feel afraid or small because of that, I feel like anytime you ask yourself, "What can I do? What can I do?" I always think back to Rashida's teachings and it's always like care for the person next to you. That's it. Right? 

That's how you take the oxygen out of this mechanism of fear and inevitability of authoritarianism — there's someone around you in your immediate vicinity who needs your care, now go care for them, do something for them, do something with them. And so care as a resistance strategy, it's so simple and like you keep saying over and over, the most natural thing that we are biologically wired to do anyway. And it just might feel a little bit foreign because we've been conditioned into individualism and separation. But that's conditioning that we've received on top of our preexisting biologically wired, I might even say spiritually wired nature to recognize each other as a connection and to show up for each other. 

So I just really wanna drill this into everyone's heads — how you resist is by caring, right? Like, anytime you ask yourself, what can I do? Do something that cares for another person in your community. Yeah. 

One question I have for you is that due to the aforementioned individualism, the culture of separation and individualism, and also because of, I think the effects of COVID, the after-effect of the pandemic, I think a lot of people, more than ever, are feeling isolated. Like, "I don't know who my neighbors are, I don't know what they need." For someone who feels like, "I feel like I don't know, I'm not connected to their needs," what would you advise?

Connect with community organizations

Rashida: If you don't feel comfortable with your literal neighbors, like your next door neighbors, there are community groups everywhere that are doing things right? One of my favorite local nonprofits, a dear friend of mine started it. They are always giving out supplies. It's called Centers of Wellness for Urban Women. So they're really focused on the needs of women. They hand out free diapers, free period supplies. They hand out condoms and pregnancy tests, they hand out a lot of just necessities that women need for them and their children. 

And so if I have an extra whatever, I'll pick up — I don't have a kid in diapers. My kid is 10, but I might pick up an extra pack of diapers and some wipes and drop it off, and I will never see the woman, the parent who needed those diapers, but I know that someone who needed those diapers has diapers. So it's figuring out who is around you and what they need. Call an organization, say, "Hey, what do you need?" And then give what you have in abundance.

Simone: I love that because there's, I guarantee every community has community organizations.

Rashida: Everyone.

Simone: And you could learn because, and they, I promise you, they've already been doing needs assessments. They're connected to the people who actually do want, need support, and —

Rashida: And they're losing funding like crazy. Yeah.

Simone: Everywhere. Oh. One of my favorite ways that doesn't require me to call anybody or talk to anybody that I can do that's really gonna help is writing a positive Google or Yelp or whatever review for a Black-owned business, queer-owned business, trans-owned business, Indigenous, Latino, Arab, Asian-owned business. If I genuinely had a positive experience with them, right? Yeah. This is my favorite thing to do if you have 10 minutes and I'm like, oh, that Black-owned restaurant, really good food. Gonna write them a glowing fucking review. You know, it really helps those businesses.

Rashida: Yep. And it took you 10 minutes and you don't have to think about it anymore. And they're like, oh my goodness. Like you are like, they see it and they're like, oh my goodness, this is so great.

Simone: It makes their day.

Rashida: Right.

Simone: And it helps them onto something else. Yeah. And if you have a podcast that you listen to created by someone that you know that you wanna support, leave them a positive review. Leave my podcast and Rashida's podcast a positive review.

Rashida: Leave our podcast positive reviews.

Simone: And things like that. Or like, you're like, I don't know what's a Black-owned business, Latino-owned business in my neighborhood? Well, Google it and you'll probably find it. And the next time that's the business, probably check out for what you wanna do. So that's something you can do really simple, really quick.

Rashida: Yep. And you can find stuff on TikTok if you start looking at it — you can use social media to find local stuff all the time. I have found so much stuff, Black-owned, minority-owned, queer-owned stuff, Indianapolis, Indiana, okay, just off of TikTok. So go to social media and find it. They're everywhere and they want you to know about them, so just go eat their food and give an honest review, make sure the review is honest, but if it's good, let people know.

Simone: A hundred percent. And I just found another resource that I personally don't have experience with, but seems cool, which is called Showing Up for Racial Justice, and it's a national network of white people working to undermine white supremacy and work towards collective liberation. They offer local chapters, organizing tools and community for white folks committed to showing up in solidarity. So I love that. Showing Up for Racial Justice, check that out. There's a website and, I just think, just care and small, small doable action that you can do in five minutes, 10 minutes to show someone else that you care and that their humanity matters and that you support them is really the best weapon we have against all the shit that's going on.

Build the muscles of allyship

And the thing is, when you do it, it's a win-win. 'Cause you're gonna feel so good about yourself and you're gonna, you know, you're making an immediate difference. So that kind of thing creates momentum and when you know how to do something super simple and elemental, anyone can do it and it takes 10 minutes and you keep doing that, you build a self concept of yourself as someone who's good at showing up, who makes a difference. Yeah. And that emboldens you and gives you energy to do bigger, more courageous things. Yes. And I think that's how we build those muscles of allyship, of showing up for liberation. You don't go from not doing anything to overturning a government overnight, that just doesn't —

Rashida: Right, exactly. It's not gonna happen. And you also have to understand that you're gonna make mistakes. It's gonna be messy and sweaty and imperfect, and you're gonna make mistakes, but you're also going to be helping your fellow human.

We talk about this all the time lately, especially lately, like this is not the time to get this concept about allyship or showing up or whatever language you wanna use around it. This is not the time to say, ooh, I'm gonna sit with that. Do not sit. This is not the time to sit, stand. Now, that doesn't mean don't rest because rest is required. But it doesn't mean sit.

Simone: That's the same thing as when someone wants to start their business and they wanna market their business. And I give them a piece of coaching about what they can do to start letting people know about their business right now, they're like, "Oh, Simone, mm-hmm, such great coaching, really thought provoking. I'm gonna sit with that." And that's how I know absolutely nothing is going to happen to your business. Yes. The sitting with it is the opposite of action. 

So yes, for everyone I coach on marketing too, right? I have to sort of coach them to move through the discomfort and the awkwardness of doing something when sitting there and thinking about it, journaling about it, meditating on it feels safer. Yeah. But I encourage you to make that call to your local community organization. Walk over to your neighbor and just ask how you could help. If you already know, do that thing and just cut yourself a lot of slack knowing that no one's asking you to be Superman. No one's asking you to save the world. Give yourself grace too to learn new things and to grow in the journey.

About The Liberated Life community

So, well, I think it's a good place for me to say, Rashida, please tell us about the Liberated Life community.

Rashida: So the Liberated Life community is basically where we talk about this stuff all the time and we, I think having a community of people with very varied gifts, different gifts and different ways that they have social capital and money capital, and all the different types of ways that they can help in the community, it's like a mutual aid situation inside of the community, right, where people are giving information and receiving information. It's all a give and take. There's no charity inside of there. And there are challenges already in the group. The group just opened and there's already a challenge in the group to help folks in their community, their favorite nonprofit.

Simone: I already know that you have some amazing people in there already in the first phase of opening. And I feel like this is what so many people are dreaming about. Like if only there was a community that's a safe space for me to be imperfect and not know everything and ask questions about how I can serve better. And I'm not gonna be shouted down. No one's gonna shame me if I don't know something. And you're in community with other people who are in the same place as you, or maybe a little bit more advanced than you. Or maybe some people know a little bit less than you and you can all rely on each other and you get regular coaching and mentoring from Rashida live. And right now, it just opened for the first three months. The monthly rate is criminally low, like ridiculous.

Rashida: It is, I know so, so low that I didn't even talk to you about it 'cause I knew you were not gonna approve.

Simone: I have thoughts. But hey, you made the decision without consulting me. So here's what it is.

Rashida: I know.

Simone: What's the monthly rate for the first three months?

Rashida: For the first three months, if you wanna do it monthly, you have to do it in October, but it's $20 a month. But if you want to be a part of the first three months, it's $60. So if you wanna do it monthly, you have to start in October. But if you join in November, it's fine. You just have to do the full 60. Does that make sense?

Simone: So it shakes out to three months, 60 bucks. That's 20 bucks a month. That is cuh-razy. Six coaching live.

Rashida: Yeah. Six live coaching sessions, three classes, and constant support from your community in the group.

Simone: And there's other perks too, right? You're giving people lifetime discounts.

Rashida: Yeah. So if you sign up in October, you are considered an original group member, you're an OG. And so in January there will be a fee that will be more, but the OGs will get a discount off that, a lifetime fee for being in the group.

Simone: You're locked into lifetime discounts for Rashida's —

Rashida: For everything, for classes, for merch, for whatever. If I do a retreat like Simone did, and I bring Simone with me, because we do magical things when we're together, then you get a discount.

Simone: Y'all have to be thanking your lucky stars because if she had talked to me about this before she announced it, I would've told her no fucking way. But she's an independent, sovereign being and made this decision without consulting me. And now you get this ridiculous benefit. You have to go sign up right now for $20 a fricking month.

Rashida: It's crazy. I know that this is something that, especially right now, I don't want you to be afraid to move. We need you. So for these first three months, we're gonna get some work done, and I don't want money to be on your mind. Come in, let's get some work done, and then you can worry about money later. We'll talk about money later.

Your five-minute challenge

Simone: Okay. That's the Liberated Life community. I'll put the links in the show notes, so please go check it out. Follow Rashida on the socials.

Rashida: I am Rashida Bonds on Instagram mostly is probably the best place to go. I think we should leave everybody with a challenge. Because if we can just get a few more people making small steps, it adds up, right? Simone and I would like you to take five minutes to do something for somebody else.

Simone: Oh, you know what I should do? I should put in the show notes of this episode a list of five, 10-minute actions people can do.

Rashida: Yeah. I love that. I love that.

Simone: Because we came up with that for our event in Detroit. I'm gonna share that with you as a resource. I'm gonna put that in the show notes. It is obviously not an exhaustive list, but it's meant to be something that inspires you. Something to go off of. Something that takes five, 10 minutes that doesn't require you to go and get something from the store. It doesn't require you to go learn a skill that you don't have or meet people that you haven't met. Using what you have, being exactly who you are right now with what's in your room, on your phone, you can do something and we'll leave a list of good ideas in the show notes as a resource for you. Oh, that's a fantastic idea. Okay.

Rashida: Thank you Simone.

Simone: Thank you for joining me. Thank you so much for listening and being part of this conversation and we'll talk to y'all later.

Rashida: Bye.